It’s difficult to remember when I first encountered the AI work of Jorge Dugule (aka Optimoos). His work, as with so many other artists, just pops up in our queue after the search engine does it daily scouring of YouTube. Maybe it was one of his western-themed videos such as “Friendship, Adventure and Whisky,” set to the very western/surf music of Jesse Gallagher’s “Horses & Trains.” I do know that after seeing “She Could Be In The Next Barbie Movie,” set to “More” by Asketa & Natan Chaim, I knew I wanted to talk with him. So I emailed him.
Then he offered to make a music video for us. He did this to “The Future's So Bright,” by Timbuk 3. With this, the direction of our 2023 TikiKiti Film Festival was decided.
As with many other producers dedicated to developing the AI music video, the progress of his work follows the development of the multiple AI programs he uses. It is because of artists like him that we have been able to follow the advancement of this technology.
After seeing that his AI work only goes back about seven months, I asked him if this was when he start working in AI animations. He says,
“You know, I've been hanging out on the internet for what feels like ages — it has become my digital playground, a world full of wonder, creativity, and endless opportunities. But, as they say, every rose has its thorn, it's the fierce competition that keeps us on our toes. Adapting to constant change is just part of the gig when you live online.
“As for diving into the world of AI images and animations, that happened roughly one year ago. I was immediately captivated by the potential of AI and eagerly followed the latest trends and technologies. I've invested countless hours in learning, and let me tell you, creating top-notch animations isn't as easy as a few clicks. It's a journey filled with twists and turns, and a very steep learning curve!”
This last statement echoed what every other AI artist I’ve talked to has said. Making good AI videos takes so much more than just prompt-and-click. It takes vision and determination. And, as with most good artists, Jorge recognizes that he is part of a community. Helping that community to learn and create has been part of his personal mission.
Jorge’s response to my questions were both precise and eloquent. It was more of a discussion than an interview.
Mark Dixon: Much of your work has very detailed descriptions about how you used the prompts. I’m thinking of the Grouplove video you did recently, but also going back to others such as the Stable Diffusion Animation Prompts - 1000 Subs Challenge. Was this a competition?
Jorge Dugule: I try to be a resource for those who are eager to learn. So, I share insights into my creative process, including the prompts I use. This way, anyone who's keen on diving into the world of animation can follow along and embark on their own creative experiments.
It wasn't exactly a competition in the traditional sense. It was more of a personal challenge I set for myself. Reaching the coveted 1000-subscriber milestone on YouTube can be quite an uphill climb. So, this challenge was my way of staying motivated and pushing my creative boundaries, even when the task ahead seemed pretty daunting. It turned out to be an exciting journey of growth and learning!
MD: You have a few videos such as Stable Diffusion Deforum Best Prompts, with music by Dyalla, where you go behind the scenes showing how you prompted Stable Diffusion using just 7 prompts that you "found and edited.” Then you go on to say, "So, here you go, behind the scenes of animation making using Deforum….” All of these videos where you detail make me think you have a background in teaching. Is this the case?
JD: Oh, that's a keen observation! Yes, I actually studied teaching in college. But when I made those videos, my goal was to help people get started with prompts. You see, making AI animations with good prompts and scene structure can be tricky. It's a skill that takes practice and learning. So, I wanted to show examples that folks could use as a guide to improve their own animations.
MD: As someone who also has a background in teaching — I taught a college level course in Photoshop and web design many years ago—this approach tends to stick with me. How do you approach a subject? Regarding the Timbuk 3 song, I suggested it and you likely watched the original video. But what you did is so much more involved—and fun. Comparing the two videos is a great way to compare the world today to what it was 40 years ago. Was this an intentional approach?
JD: I always start with the music itself. The band and their message are crucial, but music has so many layers of meaning. It's not just about the lyrics; it's also about the colors of the sounds—the melody, harmony, voices, instruments—all coming together to tell a story. Think of it like communication; words are just a part of the message. Most of it is conveyed nonverbally.
In music, lyrics are only a small piece of the puzzle. To capture the complete meaning and all the layers, you have to connect deeply with all the elements of a song. So, I listen and listen, letting the music inspire me. It guides me in choosing prompts for the AI and helps me craft a compelling narrative for the animation.
As for the Timbuk 3 song, that was more of an experiment where I tried to recreate and draw inspiration from the original video. But in my regular workflow, it's the music that leads the way.
Now, about comparing the old world to the new, it's not even something I intentionally set out to do. I'm a firm believer in technology and evolution—it's part of everything. The universe is expanding, our minds are expanding, and everything is gaining layers of complexity with each passing beat. It's just a natural progression.
MD: I’ve noticed in some of your recent works you have introduced some type of image shimmy. This is unlike any other transformations because the image does not transform. There’s just a little shake—and on Halloween/The Hives there are several. I have to think this is intentional. Is it some sort of signature?
JD: It’s definitely intentional, although I wouldn't call it a signature move or anything. It's just a video effect I like to throw in when it feels right. You see, I create my animations to sync up with the music and enhance the overall experience. It's all about complementing the music and conveying its message. So, those little shimmies you noticed, they're just part of that creative process, adding a bit of extra flair to the visuals.
MD: When I mentioned Grouplove with 36 prompts you listed, I said it is a great way to show how much work is involved in making an AI animation. You indicated it was only the tip of the iceberg. Is this something you can elaborate on?
JD: Creating an AI animation is quite a process, and it's really up to the creator to decide how much effort they want to put into it. It's a bit like painting, where you can keep adding more details, strokes, and depth to improve it endlessly.
With AI animation, you can generate something basic with just a few simple prompts, but it might end up looking amateurish and lacking quality. If you want to make something impressive, it takes a lot of hard work and a deep understanding of various technologies.
Here's a simplified breakdown of the process: You start with an idea, brainstorm, and plan your project. You create a structure for your animation, work on different scenes, and then dive into the world of prompts. This involves experimenting for hours to find the right prompts that communicate your vision to the AI effectively.
Once you have the images, the editing process begins, using professional video editing software. These are some of the main steps, but really, there's no limit to what you can achieve in AI animation. You can work on a project as long as you like, and the possibilities are limitless.
MD: Some background info that may help why I asked this last question. Maybe you are familiar with the continued controversy surrounding AI art, and how a US judge recently ruled that AI could not be copyrighted because it is not generated by a human. The artist who brought the lawsuit against the US Copyright Office said that he was the one controlling every aspect of how the AI software developed his art.
JD: People often have mixed feelings about change, especially when it comes to something new like AI. But it's important to understand that AI is simply a tool that can elevate an artist's creativity.
When it comes to creating AI art, the artist is very much involved in every step of the process. It's a hands-on type of work where you input parameters at each stage. In essence, AI art is a product of human creativity.
Think of it this way: when an artist uses a brush to paint on a canvas, is it the brush that created the painting, or is it the human artist guiding the brush? AI is like that brush; the artist directs it and instructs it on what to do. So, in the end, it's the artist who creates the art with the assistance of AI.
MD: This ruling has not helped the cause for artists using AI because popular perceptions of it are based on fear. People are too afraid to understand and learn about something. And this political cartoonist from the Washington Post illustrated the objection and lack of understanding that most people have.
I have been fighting this mentality ever since. A local gallery has refused to accept anything remotely resembling AI as art and will not display it in their gallery. I find this very interesting since this gallery was created with the very iconoclastic approach to art that AI has been proving.
JD: Don’t worry; change often takes time for acceptance to catch up. Just zoom out a bit, and you'll notice that the path is clear. AI will not only be accepted but also embraced, much like how cars replaced horses on the roads. It's just a matter of time before AI in art finds its rightful place, even in galleries that were initially resistant to it.
MD: Is there any way you can help me explain what it takes to develop an AI music video? What happened behind-the-scenes of the Grouplove video? How does your creative process work? You seem to have an affinity for certain styles. How do you settle on what to show—and how to show it?
JD: AI has completely transformed creativity, and what many people who haven't used it don't realize is just how personal it can be. Here's an interesting experiment I tried with my wife: we both had the same assignment and parameters for a project, and we decided exactly what needed to be done. Then, we each started prompting AI on separate computers. After many hours of work, we compared our animations side by side.
The result? Mind-blowingly different. AI isn't standardized; it's deeply personal. It's almost like magic how, when you create with AI, you end up imprinting your unique self onto the project. Your beliefs, your style, your mind, your creativity—it all comes through in your work with AI.
